RedSub variations....

**bullibeer** · 13.01.2008, 18:40

Hi Ed,.....

also the MK3 DRSD was printed directly on the dial i guess....

**philipp** · 13.01.2008, 19:29

I understand what you say..and correct it's not a sub & as i said above..

Some thinking from my side especially when i compare the Redsubs with the Drsd. Early drsd mk1 & some mk2 had the red over white paint and later all mk3-4 etc seadwellers the red is directly on the dial. So logical these 2 versions in the 200 meter first with 'red over white' should be the early ones and the 200 meter first where the red goes directly would be more the transitional type going from 200/660 to 660/200 dials where red was always directly on the dial....Imho Rolex found a more clean way to print the red visible directly on the dial because the 'experimental' fase of red over white wasn't as nice and looking sometimes quite strange and messy..

Here for instance 'red directly' 200 meter first & a MK2 'red over white'..

and here the mk 3 & 4 directly on the dial..

Rgrds.P

**delgado** · 13.01.2008, 23:05

I am not sure that I follow your conclusions.

IMO the only directly on the dial is the drsd in the bottom right.. (out of the four scans posted)

You are just lucky enough to have a nice example without the red migrating and revealing the white under it. love it!

**philipp** · 14.01.2008, 00:13

"This is bernhard example of paint directly on the dial.. you can see its not as "heavy" on the dial since it is directly on the dial"

It a MK4 you show and later in production and so a uncomparable example also having different font & printing technique ..

&

You are just lucky enough to have a nice example without the red migrating and revealing the white under it. love it

LOL Ed & thanks! but i have not 1 but at least 4 examples in my collection with the red directly on the dial and i compared all relevant pictures i have in my database before i said something..it's not luck, it's logic.

Further i don't understand you saying that the DRSD MK4 is the only one were the red is directly on dial as you for instance say about the DRSD MK2's on your site: " ...The distinguishing characteristic of this dial is the print. The print is usually directly applied onto the dial and is a bright red and crisp. & stating on the DRSD MK3.."The dial red print is very similar to the one above .."

& don't you see the difference between the 2 F's from FT in your picture just posted and mine? Imho expect this non touching F the font on yours is thinner than were they printed the red directly..

So take you time Ed, read it again and look closely on the differences. Let's see if this helps understanding my theory..

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...edondialbs.jpg

..... & ones we are ready with this, please write this time my name correctly on your site ; - )))

Rgrds.P

**bullibeer** · 14.01.2008, 08:54

Original von delgado
I am not sure that I follow your conclusions.

IMO the only directly on the dial is the drsd in the bottom right.. (out of the four scans posted)

You are just lucky enough to have a nice example without the red migrating and revealing the white under it. love it!

Hi Ed,.... the picture below to the left is the MK3 DRSD,.... isn't that printed directly on the dial,... as you look at mine it shure looks like it,... otherwise there are very, very good in printing to colors with this thin font!!!!!! ???????????

**philipp** · 14.01.2008, 23:54

Komplete 200M-1680 red with 2,42x.xxx serial and the red over white thin print of Submariner. Dial is getting brown from the inside with beautifull aged tritium on hands and indexes..Seller told me that the watch has been till 1988 with first owner wearing it, afterwards it was all the time in the safe....untill now ; - ) & Here we see clearly the red over white print matching in the second range of 200 meter first dials "open 6 & red over white from 2.1 - 2.4xx.xxx."

Rgrds.Philipp

**bullibeer** · 15.01.2008, 00:04

Yes Philipp,.. another killer!!

All you,... double punched,.... perfect,...and from first owner,... great history.

Enjoy my friend!

**delgado** · 15.01.2008, 00:12

Komplete! Kool full papers watch! Karamba!

Philipp I think you just invented a word... I like it.

Back to the red subs.. I agree the dials are different but the print still white paint over red paint..

**arndt** · 15.01.2008, 00:28

Wow, Philipp, what a set!

Btw:
my 1680, #24219xx has the ft first, here some scans:

ehemaliges mitglied · 15.01.2008, 01:22

This thread has been a real learning lesson. I am close to getting a red sub again. Lost mine in a robbery, but can't forget this watch.

Aside from all the dial variations, there are also movement variations I believe. First, there are movements with hacking and non-hacking seconds. Not sure if there are also different movement references? Anyone can shed some light on this?

I am impressed with the collection of Phillip. And with all papers, punched serial. That's quite something.

Would any of you mind to send me a private message regarding what maximum price I should pay for an early red sub with open 6, serial starting with 25xxx, no papers, no box, nothing? Just curious what I have to expect.

I am enjoying this thread a lot.

**bullibeer** · 15.01.2008, 07:55

Original von arndt
Wow, Philipp, what a set!

Btw:
my 1680, #24219xx has the ft first, here some scans:

Wow,... fantastic watch,..... enjoy this beauty!!!!

>>>
I had a mtr's first red-sub with hacking-movement,.. confirmed in a letter from Rolex,... that it was correct...

**eparisini** · 17.01.2008, 10:42

**philipp** · 17.01.2008, 12:37

This is a older & incorrect summery that i first saw on a italian forum..

As i & others have shown with the full packets & all original meter first redsubs the range and the order shown in the above summery is NOT correct. It's nice for a discussion but as we have seen by serveral examples on this forum and other forums, it's doesnt match and don't give us proof on the early 2.0 to 2.4 meter first...

But more exciting is the FT first of Arndt!! Nice and early one with red over white print clearly visible. When you compare your FT first with 2.421.9xx with my complete meter first with serial: 2.421.7xx the line when they changed from meter first to feet first is probably 2.421.8xxx

This is good news! Imho, we have achieved something by knowing the turning point!!....besides that Ed now also sees the difference in the 3 x early 200 meter first series off course ; - )

Rgrds.Philipp

**eparisini** · 17.01.2008, 15:08

Philipp can you please post correct sequence of dials?

**philipp** · 04.08.2008, 13:21

Sold in Maastricht, my hometown by a dealer that was only selling Rolex for a very short time. The buyer that lived across the border in Belgium made the right choice, he chosed a red sport model and kept all papers, etc that came with it...

I sold the watch 2 years ago to an enthousiastic Rolex collector in Australia, he paid probably a world record price for it then...now he gave me the oppertunity to buy it back where i am very thankfull for!

Rgrds.Philipp