Rolex Deep Sea Special Prototype versus Display Model......

We all know about the exceptional story of the extraordinair Rolex Deep Sea Special, Jacques Piccard & Lt. Don Walsh, Trieste, Challenger Deep, Deepest Dive in 1960 and the latest James Cameron dive to deepest place on earth with a new Rolex DeepSea Challenger attached to his submariner. Today I want to explain the difference between the early, prototype Rolex DeepSea Special Geneva started to develop from 1953 and the later after 1960 by Rolex made a fully engraved Display Version of the DeepSea Special for marketing use by producing a much larger batch and sending it out to their worldwide offices to impress their clients. With their first mayor test on November 30, 1953 a Rolex DSS was attached to the exterior of the Trieste depth craft submariner, which reached a world-record depth of 3150 meters which is 10.245 feet or 2 miles down. This was achieved of the coast of Ponza Island. After surfacing the watch was carefully inspected and was intact and functioning properly. Find below the official Rolex information from their experiences during testing..

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con.../DSSwhite3.jpg

In above text we read that Rolex testet ONLY 2 x Proto DSS of which one of the two got handed over to Jacques Piccard for his 1953 deep 3150 meter dive. But until now we known of 3 x original Prototype Rolex DeepSea Specials that are fully intact and survived the extreme tests by Rolex and made between 1953 and 1960 when Piccard & Walsh hit Challenger Deep. Comparing the movement numbers of the exclusive caliber 1000 of both auctioned DSS by Christie's we see they a gap of 92 numbers between No 1 & No 5 Rumor says Rolex had developed 7 examples of the Proto Rolex DSS. The question is how many remained in working condition & does Rolex Geneva have one of these?? Here're 3 known Proto DSS's.



1 - The white dialed DSS ( from Smithsonian Museum, Washington DC ) given directly by Rolex Geneva.

2 - The black dialed DSS with number 01 engraved, caliber 1000 - mov. no. 419.251 sold by Christie's in 2005 for CHF 322,400,-

3 - The black dialed DSS with number 05 engraved, caliber 1000 -mov. no. 419.343 sold by Christie's in 2000 for $ 113,853



1: The Smithsonian Rolex DeepSeaSpecial with unique white dial... Note the different Crown Design then we see with the DSS No 1 as this White DSS doesn't have the extra bigger ring between crown and case, which could point out that it's made before Rolex found all the leaks during testing and adjusted the crown design to withstand the enormous pressure. Also not the different Rolex crown design printed on it's dial, the fingers of the crown are thinner, the mouth is more open, it's less perfect then we see with DSS No 1.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con.../DSSwhite2.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...sswhite-31.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...xDSSwhite1.jpg

Strangely we see the crown design being adjusted to the final design in following picture of Smithsonian Museum, apparently Rolex changed it AFTER they found out where the leaks where to get the perfect construction.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...lexFrontal.jpg

For comparison, the unique White Submariner ref 6205 from around 54 of my great friend Eric Ku ..

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...submariner.jpg

And a rare version in white of the a early Rolex Explorer..

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...eexplorer1.jpg

2: The black dialed DSS with number 01 engraved on its case back. NOTE: the extra bigger size ring between the crown and its case, the final construction. The deployant clasp is dated 4/53. Originally given by Hans Wilsdorf and finally sold by the widow at Christies. Maybe its me but WHY would Mr. Wilsdorf alias Rolex give away such a important watch!?

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...Battiscafe.jpg

3: The black dialed DSS with number 05 engraved on the back, same crown design & bigger ring between case and crown but more patina on the dial

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con.../05/DSSNo5.jpg

After the successful deepest dive in 1960, we see the Rolex DSS Display Models, specially designed by Rolex ( sometimes having no movement, or were later added ) to market this remarkable achievement. Below we see Lt. Don Walsh and james Cameron together. Walsh is holding the all steel Rolex Display version and Cameron the new 51mm for experimental use only DeepSea Challenger. NOTE: SO Rolex does NOT have or show the REAL DSS, the early prototype as we see above but LATER Display model! Strange, at least to me!!

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...mescameron.png

We see in next picture the Rolex DSS Display with UNDERLINE from the Rolex website. We Rolex Collectors know that the Underline was from 1963-1964, so NOT even 1960 as when the deepest dive was.. Different case design, different crown design ( one unscrews the big crown, then a smaller crown becomes visible to set the time )

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...-prototype.jpg

Apparently, its the Rolex DSS that is in the London Science Museum (in the Time Measurement gallery) Here a picture made in the museum, also underline. So now we can come to the conclusion that Rolex Geneva has NO Deep Sea Special in their own vaults as why would they at first use a much later version, a DSS Display instead of a DSS Proto and secondly by using the London Underline version for they worldwide marketing, it tells me they dont have one their own, IMHO and that is REALLY strange to believe !?!

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...inelondon1.jpg

Same Underline DSS on tour at a german Rolex dealer having a exhibition. Picture courtesy by Percy & Hannes of RLX.de
http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...BeiTechel5.jpg

Rolex Ad's..
http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...psearolex1.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...5/piccard2.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...espiccard2.jpg

Piccard Exhibition at Museum Du Leman, testing the different material and domed glasses..
http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-04.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-05.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-07.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-09.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-03.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...EA-SPECIAL.jpg

The Underline Rolex DSS-Display No. 20

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...ssnumber20.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...SStswisst2.jpg

Here the Rolex DSS No. 31 sold for $ 438.000,= at Christies HK in 2009.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...83-004.772.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...a-Special1.jpg

with later Rolex caliber

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...aspecial17.jpg

Inspiration of the DSS case design compared to the Panerai Rolex ref 6152/1

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...aspecial15.jpg

Number 32 of the Rolex DSS having a caliber 1570 sold at Antiquorum in 2003 for 124,500 CHF

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...012/05/564.jpg

Number 35 of the Rolex DSS-Display with movement No. 641867 did NOT sell at AQ in 2002

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...2/05/39-11.jpg

But No 35 got again offered at German auction Crott & Schmelzer, NOTE She was given by Rolex to the present owner at the beginning of the seventies !!
http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...5/DSC00742.jpg

Here the Rolex DSS from the Beyer Museum in Zurich, next to the, by Hans Wilsdorf personally given, Rolex of Sir Edmund Hillary he wore during Mt. Everest ascent.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con.../dsszurich.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...DSzurich3.jpg"

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...zurichside.jpg

Interesting it is to see this version has a T SWISS T dial, with other words, a Rolex dial made AFTER 1965! That means that Rolex was still producing these DSS-Displays long after the 1960 historical dive.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...DSSiswisst.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...urichfront.jpg

Sideview of the Display DSS, note the less high domed glass it has compared to the early Prototypes at the beginning of this RPR article.
http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...zurichside.jpg

The Piccard Deep Sea Special, given by Bertrand Piccard at the Museum du Leman in Nyon near Geneva.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-10.jpg

We see its NOT having the special ring between case and crown, making it a early Display model

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-09.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-03.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-11.jpg

Original Sir Edmund Hillary Rolex Bosescks Calcutta & Piccard DeepSea Special Display model

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-02.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...iccard-011.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-23.jpg

ong before Rolex gave us back the name DeepSea on a Rolex watch with their 2008 über Seadweller model, they already made another DeepSea model in mid 50-ies we see here:

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...x-DEEP-SEA.jpg

James Cameron with the Deep Sea Challenger next to him attached to robot arm.
I believe the new DeepSea Story is not yet over, Rolex will come up with something I feel! ;-)

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...ciety-Flag.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...allenge-1.jpeg

regards Philipp

Klasse Report Philipp! Super informativ und toll geschrieben!

Danke fürs Einstellen :verneig: :gut:

Danke fürs einstellen! Sehr interessant!

grosses Kino !!
Vielen DANK für diesen tollen Bericht.

Wahnsinn! Danke! :verneig::verneig::verneig:

Wie immer Philipp :verneig:

Danke für den Bericht !

Die Rolex Deep Sea Special sieht recht tragbar aus !

Die 6205 würde ich persönlich aber vorziehen für den täglichen gebrauch , aber es käme doch auf einem Versuch an ;)

Klasse Bericht :gut:. Besonders interessant finde ich die Bilder von den verformten Stahlteilen 8o.

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...rd-nyon-09.jpg

Danke EUCH herzlichst !! :gut

Das einzige Foto biss jetzt wo die 2 der wichtigsten Rolex zusammen kommen...

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-02.jpg

http://rolexpassionreport.com/wp-con...piccard-01.jpg



:D

Die Dimensionen der DeepSea Challenge 8o8o8o

Glückwunsch Philipp:top:

wem die Uhr passt, der ist zu dick :op: Sehr interessanter Bericht - Danke dafür !

Dein Schlußsatz lässt hoffen. Ich fange dann schon mal an zu sparen.
Interessanter Bericht. Legenden gehen öfter leer aus. Van Gogh z.B. hat ja wohl auch nie was von dem Reichtum gesehen, obwohl er, wie Rolex hier, der Erschaffer war.

Sehr eindrucksvoll!

Vielen Dank!

Die verformten Metallkugeln sind nicht ohne...

Toll :gut:

PERFECT, P.! THX!

Historic important picture of Jacques Piccard and the Rolex DSS Proto early 50-ies in Italia, Trieste with in the background the Submariner Trieste that’s officially published in their Rolex Perpetual Spirit Magazine This is the only visuel proof we’ve ever seen where a Piccard is pictured with the ‘secret’ Rolex on board. NOTE the end links are not perfectly matching of this early DSS Proto.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...rd_trieste.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...stecloseup.jpg

;)

Update:

I forgot the Rolex DSS No 22 that was on tour in US in 2010-2011 with Lt. Don Walsh :D

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...PR/dssno22.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ebration-2.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ebration-4.jpg

Super, Philipp! Danke fürs Zeigen!

Genial, Philipp. Besten Dank fürs Einstellen. Mein Favorit fürs tägliche Tragen wäre aber die weiße Sub von Eric. :gut:

Klasse Bericht :verneig:

Sehr interessant. Danke, Philipp. :gut:

spectacular :gut:


Gruss


Wum

First-class report, great information... Thank you :gut:

Confirmed my purchase of the 116660...

Sehr interessant. Danke.

Zitat:

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Zitat von philipp

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ebration-2.jpg

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Was macht denn dieser Kaffeefahrten-Moderator mit dabei?

Zitat:

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Zitat von Döskopp

Was macht denn dieser Kaffeefahrten-Moderator mit dabei?

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Wenn ich mich gut erinnere, ist das der US Rolex marketing Chef ;)

Display Krone & glass, also auch auf deren 50 Jahre Unterwasser Geschichte eine spätere Display DSS, wahrscheinlich no 20 oder 22 ...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...50th-Ann-2.jpg

Ach so. Trotzdem wollte ich von dem nichts kaufen.

Toller Bericht, Philipp

Die Jagd nach den Extremen ist immer wieder faszinierend. :gut:

danke EUCH Herzlichst!! :gut:

Dear Philipp,
many thanks for your nearly scientific report, which I really enjoyed to read. You brought not only light but floodlight into the history of the DSS.

But please allow me to ask one more question: Was the DSS fitted to the Trieste 1953 (diving depth 3150 m) of the same design as the DSS fitted to the diving capsule of 1960 (diving depth 10916 m)? I assume: yes. This would mean, that Rolex designed the DSS already 1953 for withstanding a diving depth of nearly 11000 m, even if the Trieste 1953 “only” went down to 3150 m and there was no bathyscaph available for going down to the Challenger-Deep at that time. Consequently the project Challenger-Deep was then already in their minds beginning of the 50ies.

One remark beside the DSS:
As commonly known, the diving capsule underneath the Trieste was made by the german Fried. Krupp GmbH in Essen. There is a humorous story about the personal inspection of the capsule by Berthold Beitz, who was the general manager of Krupp at that time (today he is 98 and still holding all the power within ThyssenKrupp as president of the main shareholder “Alfried Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach Stiftung” comparable to the “Hans Wilsdorf Stiftung”). When Beitz was inside the capsule one of the Krupp-directors said loudly: “And now close the door, let it sink down and we will see him never again”. But Beitz heard the remark, came out of the capsule, loughed and answered “Wishfull thinking”. You have to know that Beitz was a very modern manager at that time and the old fashioned Krupp-directors found him really “shocking”. Beitz tells this story still today. In my files I have photo of Beitz during the capsule inspection (when I remember it right together with Piccard), which I can scan in case of interest.

Once again many thanks for your remarkable work, Philipp.

Regards
Matthias

Zitat:

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Zitat von Prof. Rolex

Dear Philipp,
many thanks for your nearly scientific report, which I really enjoyed to read. You brought not only light but floodlight into the history of the DSS.

But please allow me to ask one more question: Was the DSS fitted to the Trieste 1953 (diving depth 3150 m) of the same design as the DSS fitted to the diving capsule of 1960 (diving depth 10916 m)? I assume: yes. This would mean, that Rolex designed the DSS already 1953 for withstanding a diving depth of nearly 11000 m, even if the Trieste 1953 “only” went down to 3150 m and there was no bathyscaph available for going down to the Challenger-Deep at that time. Consequently the project Challenger-Deep was then already in their minds beginning of the 50ies.

One remark beside the DSS:
As commonly known, the diving capsule underneath the Trieste was made by the german Fried. Krupp GmbH in Essen. There is a humorous story about the personal inspection of the capsule by Berthold Beitz, who was the general manager of Krupp at that time (today he is 98 and still holding all the power within ThyssenKrupp as president of the main shareholder “Alfried Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach Stiftung” comparable to the “Hans Wilsdorf Stiftung”). When Beitz was inside the capsule one of the Krupp-directors said loudly: “And now close the door, let it sink down and we will see him never again”. But Beitz heard the remark, came out of the capsule, loughed and answered “Wishfull thinking”. You have to know that Beitz was a very modern manager at that time and the old fashioned Krupp-directors found him really “shocking”. Beitz tells this story still today. In my files I have photo of Beitz during the capsule inspection (when I remember it right together with Piccard), which I can scan in case of interest.

Once again many thanks for your remarkable work, Philipp.

Regards
Matthias

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MAny Thanks Matthias!! :gut:

Was the DSS fitted to the Trieste 1953 (diving depth 3150 m) of the same design as the DSS fitted to the diving capsule of 1960 (diving depth 10916 m)? I assume: yes.

Personally, I don't think so as when we read the first Rolex description we know now that they did test 2 DSS in several test finally waterproof to 600 atmosphere ( Which mean 6000 meter ) and not to 11.000 meter the 1960 dive with Piccard & Walsh was at Challenger Deep.

We see also that AFTER 1953, the Trieste got a new bathyscaphe, capable to 16km, 1.5 times more then the necessary 11km. We also see that the first DSS Proto got a less high glass as the later ones so there's a grey area between the development Rolex did BEFORE 1953 and the final 7 miles down waterproof from 1960 but logically the first DSS that handled 3150 meter is NOT the same as the one that got to 11.000 meter. Soon I'll report more about the changed Rolex design that finally made it to deepest place on earth. As always i'm waiting for responses ( from Smithsonian Institute ) to come to a logic conclusion.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...iestkrupps.jpg

Don Walsh der mir mein 7 Miles Down Buch von Piccard signiert hatt, lätstest JAhr als ich die lebende Legende in Genf begegnete.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ardwalshEH.jpg

gr.Philipp

Zitat:

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Zitat von philipp

MAny Thanks Matthias!! :gut:

Was the DSS fitted to the Trieste 1953 (diving depth 3150 m) of the same design as the DSS fitted to the diving capsule of 1960 (diving depth 10916 m)? I assume: yes.

Personally, I don't think so as when we read the first Rolex description we know now that they did test 2 DSS in several test finally waterproof to 600 atmosphere ( Which mean 6000 meter ) and not to 11.000 meter the 1960 dive with Piccard & Walsh was at Challenger Deep.

We see also that AFTER 1953, the Trieste got a new bathyscaphe, capable to 16km, 1.5 times more then the necessary 11km. We also see that the first DSS Proto got a less high glass as the later ones so there's a grey area between the development Rolex did BEFORE 1953 and the final 7 miles down waterproof from 1960 but logically the first DSS that handled 3150 meter is NOT the same as the one that got to 11.000 meter. Soon I'll report more about the changed Rolex design that finally made it to deepest place on earth. As always i'm waiting for responses ( from Smithsonian Institute ) to come to a logic conclusion.

---

Very interesting, Philipp. Hopefully you will inform us here at RLX, if you get some more information from the Smithsonian Institute.

In addition please find following a photo from the “Krupp Historical Archive” showing Auguste and Jacques Piccard at the Krupp-Pavillon on the Hannover Fair 1960 together with a special cutted display model of the diving capsule:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...nnover1960.jpg
(Source: Historisches Archiv Krupp)

And following the side remark in my yesterdays post regarding the capsule inspection by Krupp general manager Berthold Beitz: photo dated April 1959 showing Beitz entering the capsule in the Krupp-factory in Essen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psule-0459.jpg
(Source: Historisches Archiv Krupp)

Regards
Matthias

Just to inform you here properly, i've found another puzzle in the DeepSea Saga as I just received a email from the Curator of Maritime History, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. My logic question for my research to Mr. Paul F. Johnston was, which number had been engraved on the case back of their White dialed Rolex DeepSea Special Prototype version thats on display in Washington and we see below.

"Dear Mr. Stahl,

The engraving on the back of our Rolex:

ROLEX OYSTER / NO. 3 / DEEP SEA SPECIAL

I'd be grateful for any information you could provide as to the significance of this, and how it fits into the bigger picture of deep sea Rolex watches.

Best wishes,

Paul F. Johnston, Ph.D. Curator of Maritime History, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution. "


I explained that their Rolex DDS is a Prototype, much more rare & important in general then the later, after 1960, made Display version of the DSS. Besides that, we only know of 3 early prototypes of which the Smithsonian is the only one having the experimental white dial.

Rgrds.Philipp

Another discovery I made today as I found a picture of the case back from the, imho, earliest Rolex Display Version that already where engraved with 10908 Meter & 35789 Feet dated 23.1.1960 with No. 9. So logically we know now that maximum of 8 Proto DSS have been made as with No 9, the Displays started!

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...displayno9.jpg

rg.Philipp

Since we know there are only 2 X Proto DSS prepared by Rolex for the 1953 to 3.150 meter dive by comparing the hight of the glasses of No 1, No 3 and No 5 we can now come to the conclusion that DSS No 1 (+ No 2) was made for the 1953 dive with a much LOWER glass, lets call it the DSS mk1, then from the DSS No 3 and No 5, that logically got updated by Rolex engineers AFTER 1953 with the much HIGHER glass to withstand the new challenge for 1960, to a depth of 10.908 meters. This last Proto DSS or MK2 became the example to replicate for the later DSS Displays, that started with No 9.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...deoverview.jpg

Conclusion: The DSS No 1 has been to 3.150 meter in 1953 and not to 10.908 meter in 1960 & From DSS No 3 it's possible to withstand the extreme pressure of Challenger Deep Piccard & Walsh managed in '60.

Dear Philipp,
thanks for your once again excellent information.

If the only difference between the 1953-DSS and the 1960-DSS is the design of the glass, then the case of the 1953-DSS was already able to withstand the 1960 dive depth. Or were there also some changes on the case design (on your photos I don´t see any case differences) or may be the material for the case was different in 1960 (e.g. alloy specification with higher yield strength)?

A really very interesting and exciting topic.....

Regards
Matthias

:verneig:

...one question...how is the glas fixed ??? standart as any with the outer ring??


Gruss


Wum

Hallo Wum ! Auf der Seite www.rolexblog.blogspot.com sah ich einmal eine technische Zeichnung dieser Uhr. Diese Zeichnung würde deine Frage umgehend beantworten ! Aber ich finde sie nicht mehr, suche weiter.........=(

Adriano22

Boah, super Bericht, vielen Dank!!!