Druckbare Version
Was mir an der aktuellen Jumbo nicht so gefällt ist die beschriftete Minuterie die es seit glaube ich 2000 gibt. Die Einfachheit einer Zweizeigeruhr wird damit m.E. wieder zerstört. Dies dürfte auch der Grund sein warum beim neuen Modell mit Sekunde die Indizes wieder länger sind und die Beschriftung verschwunden ist. Grüsse, Diego
Mir gefällt die beschriftete Minuterie gerade gut: gibt dem Ganzen einen sportlicheren Touch.
Die Jumbo hat das Kaliber 2121 von Jaeger, laut Chronos der 12 Zylinder unter den Uhrwerken. Deswegen würde ich diese Uhr kaufen, zumal es das Werk vielleicht bald nicht mehr gibt. Überlege auch schon länger, habe aber sehr dünne Handgelenke. Die Uhr ist recht breit.Zitat:
Original von Maga
Glückwunsch Ulrich,
bin noch total unentschlossen, ob ich mir die NEUE oder die Jmbo holen soll.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sprcih mein Junge .... Hilf mir! Danke
Gruß
Michael
genau das ist auch mein Problem; deshalb wahrscheinlich die Neue ;)
Die 2121 ist aber "die Mutter aller Uhren" und deswegen käme nur die für mich von AP in Frage. Die paßt mir nur leider nicht wirklich und bei 12.000 € sollte man wohl keine Kompromisse machen. Aus diesem Grund schau ich auch immer nach einer Patek und habe dann letztlich doch wieder Rolex gekauft.
Michael
Nur 12000,00 EUR kostet die Uhr nicht - Du bekommst sie schon um die EUR +/- 8000,00 ;)
Trotzdem Markus. Die erste Royal Oak kam mit dem 2121 auf den Markt, das sonst nur in noch teurere Uhren verbaut wurde. Deswegen gibt es bei dieser Uhr m.E. keine Alternative. Hatte auch schon die Kleine und die Day Date am Handgelenk. Sahen viel besser aus, sind aber nicht "die Originale". Die neue ist auch nicht das Original, sondern wohlmöglich nur auf dem Markt, weil AP keine Anteile mehr an Jaeger hat und keine Werke mehr bekommt. Deswegen würde ich unter diesen Umständen lieber eine zu große Uhr, aber dafür eben "das Original" tragen oder aber zumindest beide kaufen. Es ist irgendwie zum verzweifeln mit dieser Uhr.
Viele Grüße von Michael
emil,
ap hat die gesamten produktionsanlagen und rechte an dem 2121 exklusiv für ap gekauft, d.h. ausschliesslich ap kann das 2121 herstellen ... es ist also mittlerweile ein ureigenes manufakturkaliber ... das 3120 gilt als das schönste basiswerk neben dem eigentlich unschlagbaren PP 315 der gegenwart ... beide kaliber sind eine klasse für sich ... die jumbo ist die klassische variante, die neue 15300 die heutige interpretation ... es gibt meines erachtens NICHTS negatives über die neue 15300 zu sagen, freunde der ur-royal oak werden trotzdem immer die 15202 kaufen ... ;)
es sei denn, sie haben zu schmale Handgelenke...
War enttäuscht, als ich Ulrichs Jumbo an meinem doch schmalen Handgelenk sah. :( Werde demnächst mal die 15300 probieren!
lagerfeld trägt die jumbo seit über 25 jahren täglich ... wer noch kleinere ärmchen als lagerfeld hat, sollte die uhr lassen ... :D
Quark mit Soße :DZitat:
Original von ferragosto
es sei denn, sie haben zu schmale Handgelenke...
War enttäuscht, als ich Ulrichs Jumbo an meinem doch schmalen Handgelenk sah. :( Werde demnächst mal die 15300 probieren!
Ich meine, dem Kern der Berliner Fraktion stünde die Jumbo sehr gut, auch Dir Kay! Naja, außer Ralle, der MUSS einfach GG-Rolex tragen... ;)
Bei dem Feedback können wir in zwei Jahren in Berlin bestimmt einen AP-Club aufmachen! Wobei ICH dann wohl nicht mehr wohnhaft in Berlin bin ;(
AP go,
Alex
Du irrst, Lagerfeld trägt schon seit geraumer Zeit Chanel und Jacob.Zitat:
Original von Smile
lagerfeld trägt die jumbo seit über 25 jahren täglich ... wer noch kleinere ärmchen als lagerfeld hat, sollte die uhr lassen ... :D
ich irre nie ... letzte woche in einem interview mit ap jumbo am arm ... vor einem jahr hat er mal bei 'kerner' etwas über die uhr erzählt ... hat sie mal geschenkt bekommen, er findet sie doch ganz schick ... :D
werner, göttliche infos...thx
Vielleicht wechselt er ja...;)
Neulich bei Arte, eine Woche von Fersehteam begleitet worden: Chanel-Keramik, und dann irgendwo noch mit Jacob gesehen.
Hi Werner, bin in der Tat um einiges kräftiger als das Karlchen. Habe aber trotz meiner 195 cm und ca. 90 kg schmale Handgelenke. Fand die Uhr an meinem Arm nicht ganz so prickelnd wie erwartet. Habe sie aber auch nur kurz am Arm.Zitat:
Original von Smile
lagerfeld trägt die jumbo seit über 25 jahren täglich ... wer noch kleinere ärmchen als lagerfeld hat, sollte die uhr lassen ... :D
Danke Alex! Go for AP!
Kay,Zitat:
Original von ferragosto
Hi Werner, bin in der Tat um einiges kräftiger als das Karlchen. Habe aber trotz meiner 195 cm und ca. 90 kg schmale Handgelenke. Fand die Uhr an meinem Arm nicht ganz so prickelnd wie erwartet. Habe sie aber auch nur kurz am Arm.Zitat:
Original von Smile
lagerfeld trägt die jumbo seit über 25 jahren täglich ... wer noch kleinere ärmchen als lagerfeld hat, sollte die uhr lassen ... :D
Danke Alex! Go for AP!
ich hatte die Jumbo das erste Mal bei Wempe am Arm..und ich dachte...dafür sind deine Handgelenke aber zu schmal...
...einfach nochmal probieren...
einfach mal pornieren....
@Maga
Entnehme ich Deinem Verkaufsangebot für die 36mm, daß Du Dir ne 15300 kaufst? Wäre eine gute Entscheidung...
BTW. Bei Deiner cartier sinds dann doch eher 30% als 40%...;)
Ja, kaufe mir die 15300 - deshalb muss die Kleine gehen ... ;)Zitat:
Original von Zizou
einfach mal pornieren....
@Maga
Entnehme ich Deinem Verkaufsangebot für die 36mm, daß Du Dir ne 15300 kaufst? Wäre eine gute Entscheidung...
BTW. Bei Deiner cartier sinds dann doch eher 30% als 40%...;)
Richtig ... soviele Zahlen ... immer wenn ne 6 vorne steht - schreibe ich 40% :D :D :D
ich hoffe, jede kann nachrechnen ... ;) sorry
Gerne, ich hoffe, Du trägst sie beim nächsten Treffen. Ich kann Dir dann aber noch kein neues Ührchen vorführen.Zitat:
Original von Mawal
Kay,
ich hatte die Jumbo das erste Mal bei Wempe am Arm..und ich dachte...dafür sind deine Handgelenke aber zu schmal...
...einfach nochmal probieren...
weil ich heute sonst nichts zu tun hatte:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-neuMedium.jpg
WAHNSINN - ich freu mich schon soooooo auf Meine :] :] :]
Ulrich...es gibt diverse Dinge, die als "zu krass" zu bezeichnen sind. Eines davon ist dieses Foto zu dieser Uhrzeit mit dieser lässigen Überschrift!
Ich freue mich ebenfalls, irgendwann diese Uhr zu besitzen und sie noch viel früher einmal anzulegen...
Eine Träne der Rührung verdrückend,
Alex
Eine göttliche Uhr die 15300 !
Gefällt mir ausgesprochen gut !
Jedoch mit weißem ZB einen Tick besser !
Habe sie bei Blome in der Auslage liegen sehen...ein Traum !
meine kommt aber mit schwarzem Blatt - ONLY BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL ;)
Ich bin am Anfang auch mehr auf die schwarze eingeschossen gewesen, inzwischen glaub ich aber, daß es eher die weiße wird.
oh yeah! :cool:Zitat:
Original von Zizou
Ich bin am Anfang auch mehr auf die schwarze eingeschossen gewesen, inzwischen glaub ich aber, daß es eher die weiße wird.
Netter Bericht bei PuristiS.com (c):
Audemars Piguet is one of the leading houses in the Swiss watchmaking industry. Frequently referred to as one of the "Big Three," the manufactory not only has a glorious past, but a healthy present and a promising future. With a wide range of movements which have stood the test of time, the bar is set very high for any new movement from Audemars Piguet. One's expectation is simply to see something exceptional, and keeping the range of AP's current models in mind, it's even more difficult to imagine which of the two possible primary priorities they would emphasize: a very thin and elegant movement, or something slightly larger and more rugged?
The ideal solution for use in all AP models may be a combination of both, and the relatively large watches of today provide an opportunity for AP's engineers to synthesize these two goals. With this in mind, it was naturally an exciting opportunity to introduce a pre-series example of the brand new, 40 jewels, automatic AP caliber 3120.
(Editor's note: in fact, the cal. 3120 possesses 45 jewels, but because the jewels under the date wheel, by industry protocol, are not included in the final published jewel count, the "official" jewel count is "only" 40)
It should be noted at this time that the piece being considered is a "pre-series" specimen. As with all pre-series movements, there is only an impression of the end result, that is, the finish is not a consideration. It is the design and manufacturing processes that are, and it's these elements that are being finalized during this stage. Once this rigorous exercise is completed, the first run production will commence, which will then exhibit the usual high quality AP finish. Bearing this in mind, it would be premature to analyze the quality of the 3120's finishing, so any such references to "finish" are made in passing or are directed to items which fall outside of the pre-series construct, such as the wheels and pinions, which are provided finished from an outside supplier.
First impressions:
My first impressions of this new AP creation are dominated by the wonderfully "sculpted" rotor, which is entirely made of 22K gold - a first for AP. The shape of the rotor is unusual, forming an arc of about 110 degree whereas the usual shape is closer to 180 degrees. While quite beautiful, the shape of the 3120's rotor is predicated on physics, not art. The weight of the rotor is double that of the calibre 2120's rotor and coupled with its smaller circumference (1/3 compared to the cal 2120's 1/2) most of its mass, and correspondingly, its center of gravity, are further from the point of rotation, which should produce extremely efficient winding.
The inner part of most rotors are relatively thin and necessitate a riveted or screw mounted weight on the outer diameter. In contrast, AP's rotor is crafted of a single solid piece with a comparatively thick inner part. The thickness of the rotor increases towards the outer edge in two steps, following the shape of the bridges. The clearance between the oscillating weight and the bridges is remarkably small. This, together with the decoration representing the Audemars and Piguet family crests in relief, leaves an impression which may be best described as massive.
This impression is consistent throughout the entire movement; even though the 3120 is smaller than the 2120, any part of the main structure (such as the bridges and plates) seem to be made of a solid block rather than from a thin sheet. Additionally, the 3120 is a more efficient design, sporting a larger balance and barrel within a smaller area, which are performance-improving features. In view of this, and bearing in mind that the movement height of 4.25mm isn't very flat, I have to say that it is perhaps one of the most elegant and well proportioned movements I've ever seen
Introduction:
Audemars Piguet is one of the leading houses in the Swiss watchmaking industry. Frequently referred to as one of the "Big Three," the manufactory not only has a glorious past, but a healthy present and a promising future. With a wide range of movements which have stood the test of time, the bar is set very high for any new movement from Audemars Piguet. One's expectation is simply to see something exceptional, and keeping the range of AP's current models in mind, it's even more difficult to imagine which of the two possible primary priorities they would emphasize: a very thin and elegant movement, or something slightly larger and more rugged?
The ideal solution for use in all AP models may be a combination of both, and the relatively large watches of today provide an opportunity for AP's engineers to synthesize these two goals. With this in mind, it was naturally an exciting opportunity to introduce a pre-series example of the brand new, 40 jewels, automatic AP caliber 3120.
(Editor's note: in fact, the cal. 3120 possesses 45 jewels, but because the jewels under the date wheel, by industry protocol, are not included in the final published jewel count, the "official" jewel count is "only" 40)
It should be noted at this time that the piece being considered is a "pre-series" specimen. As with all pre-series movements, there is only an impression of the end result, that is, the finish is not a consideration. It is the design and manufacturing processes that are, and it's these elements that are being finalized during this stage. Once this rigorous exercise is completed, the first run production will commence, which will then exhibit the usual high quality AP finish. Bearing this in mind, it would be premature to analyze the quality of the 3120's finishing, so any such references to "finish" are made in passing or are directed to items which fall outside of the pre-series construct, such as the wheels and pinions, which are provided finished from an outside supplier.
First impressions:
My first impressions of this new AP creation are dominated by the wonderfully "sculpted" rotor, which is entirely made of 22K gold - a first for AP. The shape of the rotor is unusual, forming an arc of about 110 degree whereas the usual shape is closer to 180 degrees. While quite beautiful, the shape of the 3120's rotor is predicated on physics, not art. The weight of the rotor is double that of the calibre 2120's rotor and coupled with its smaller circumference (1/3 compared to the cal 2120's 1/2) most of its mass, and correspondingly, its center of gravity, are further from the point of rotation, which should produce extremely efficient winding.
The inner part of most rotors are relatively thin and necessitate a riveted or screw mounted weight on the outer diameter. In contrast, AP's rotor is crafted of a single solid piece with a comparatively thick inner part. The thickness of the rotor increases towards the outer edge in two steps, following the shape of the bridges. The clearance between the oscillating weight and the bridges is remarkably small. This, together with the decoration representing the Audemars and Piguet family crests in relief, leaves an impression which may be best described as massive.
This impression is consistent throughout the entire movement; even though the 3120 is smaller than the 2120, any part of the main structure (such as the bridges and plates) seem to be made of a solid block rather than from a thin sheet. Additionally, the 3120 is a more efficient design, sporting a larger balance and barrel within a smaller area, which are performance-improving features. In view of this, and bearing in mind that the movement height of 4.25mm isn't very flat, I have to say that it is perhaps one of the most elegant and well proportioned movements I've ever seen.
Removing the rotor, that is mounted to the going train bridge with two screws and positioned with two steady pins, reveals a pleasingly clear, well divided layout: the beautifully shaped balance bridge with adjustable screw-fixed stud carrier, the going train bridge, the barrel bridge, and the automatic winding train bridge. The only visible part of the auto-winding mechanism is the reduction wheel which connects the rotor and the automatic winding train.
An immediately apparent special feature is the click, which is engaged by the crown wheel instead of the ratchet wheel - a very sophisticated solution, which, together with an additional driving wheel carried in ball bearings (underneath the bridge), allows the use of a small ratchet wheel and a good, accessible, albeit robust click (the small ratchet wheel provides clearance for the outer part of the rotor, and allows for a larger/taller barrel).
The going train:
After the first impressions, I'd like to take a deep step inside, to the heart of any mechanical movement: the power supply. Hidden under barrel bridge and ratchet wheel, the mainspring/barrel assembly is one of the most mechanically stressed components of an automatic wind movement. A well constructed and engineered barrel and mainspring is essential for a high-end movement - and the indispensable foundation of a reliable and precise going train.
the barrel
Externally the barrel has a nicely spiral brushed finish with classical moulurage (the polished ring between the hub and rim); the more important inner surfaces are mirror polished. While the smoothness of these inner surfaces serve a secondary mechanical purpose, i.e., reducing friction if the mainspring comes into contact with them, this lavish treatment is more than what is required, but it is a level of refinement one expects from AP.
As with many modern directly driven sweep second movements, the 3120 employs an "off-set center wheel." But the going train of the AP 3120 also reveals a remarkable solution: in contrast to many other movements, the center wheel is driven by an intermediate wheel which is mounted under a sub bridge together with the indirectly driven minutes pinion.
sub bridge and intermediate wheel
This intermediate wheel drives a pinion that carries the cannon pinion and minute hand at the same time, making them not directly in the power flow. This solution appears to be very sophisticated and well engineered as it is a very elegant way to avoid common problems with under dial trains of movements sporting offset center wheels.
Looking at the complete going train, the compact and aesthetically pleasing layout is obvious. The wheels are finished with a circular brushing and a very nice, highly polished moulurage. The original intention in applying this polish close to the center of the wheels was to prevent the oil, which tended to run out of the bearings, from continuing on its way down the edge of the wheel to the teeth. For a contemporary movement, such a decorative element is more likely intended to add a final touch which represents superior quality.
going train
The tooth profile of the 20 teeth escape wheel appears to be quite traditional, compared to most other modern movements. It is equipped with removable cap jewels (KIF-type). The teeth, pinion and pivots are highly polished to a degree to be expected in a high grade movement.
escape wheel
The pallet bridge is ring-shaped, surrounding the balance wheel center and providing the benefit of solid banking walls. The pallet fork itself is polished and nicely chamfered. This is as pleasant a surprise as it is unusual, because chamfering tiny steel parts like a pallet fork is a lot of work, despite any additional aesthetic benefit being hardly visible even if the watch comes with a crystal back.
escapement and pallet
The balance is a freesprung, adjustable mass type with 8 Gyromax-style weights. The weights and the outer portion of the balance wheel are polished and the arms are matte/sandblasted finished. While the top view may lead to an impression of a very massive part, the lateral view reveals the rim to be extremely delicate.
At first sight, the bottom side appears to be roughly and irregularly finished. But a close look reveals the reason: it is ground by hand in an irregular circular motion. This usually is applied to take away the burrs which are left by machining without changing the thickness in an asymmetrical way. Grinding in a straight, regular motion would leave a straight "brushed" finish, but in fact the danger of rounding the edges or changing the symmetry would be much greater. The small slot cut into the rim in the upper right quadrant was made during the initial poising.
balance and collet
The hairspring is laser welded to the collet and glued to the stud - this for sure isn't a traditional method; but if one is looking for the best technical solution, the use of glue is probably state of the art today - albeit somewhat unexpected in a very high grade movement. The Geneva-type stud carrier is adjustable in order to correct beat error and fixed with two screws - this assembly should be a joy for any watchmaker who will have to service this movement. If I were allowed to voice my wishes for an ideal regulating organ, they would be nearly fulfilled by the cal. 3120 - while a Breguet overcoil would be welcome, I have to admit that it probably would not be better, just a bit nicer.
Looking at the beautiful balance bridge, it is hard to imagine a more logical or "better" layout. The use of a bridge instead of the much more common balance cock allows greater precision in critical tolerances, especially endshake of the balance arbor. In terms of long term accuracy, stability and reliability this is truly a superior solution. And once again it is amazing that even the tiniest parts, like the stud carrier or the balance bridge, are very "three-dimensional".
The automatic winding train:
rotor and winding train
Automatic winding of the new AP cal. 3120 is bi-directional. The outer part of the rotor ball bearing (which is pressed and riveted into the oscillating weight) is the first gear of the automatic train, followed by a reduction wheel which is screwed onto the pinion with a square shaped end part. The two piece construction of this reduction wheel is as elaborate as it is uncommon, even in very high-grade automatic movements.
winding wheel and reduction pinion
The rest of the automatic train is completely integrated under the bridge. First comes the switching rocker which is responsible for the change of rotation and bi-directional winding. The principle of a rocker is well known, but there are many different ways to implement it. The AP switching rocker is very compact and sturdy at the same time.
...
General comments:
Any of the few additional fractions of a millimeter in height was a great investment when AP had the chance to determine the final thickness of the new movement. Even though the general appearance of the movement is most elegant and well proportioned, I did not find a section or part that caused even the slightest doubts in terms of its reliability, stability and structural strength. Apparently, reliability was among the top aims during the development of caliber 3120. I really admire the way they achieved this and I'm sure it will be a new benchmark for quality among contemporary automatic movements. For sure some may regard some of the elaborate details to be familiar, and well known from other manufacturers, but the combination of so many engineering solutions in a single movement, which is so well proportioned, is a really great success.
There are only very elements of the design which raise questions, such as the press-fit ratchet driving wheels or the riveted rocker. However, I must admit these reservations are more based on my own, probably more than slightly nostalgic, view of the best approach to mechanical solutions.
If I had to express my thoughts in one short comment, I'd say: "this is, at the same time a rugged, reliable sports watch movement, and a classic, beautiful dress watch movement".
Only time and many samples in the field will tell, but based upon this pre-series specimen, I think this new caliber has the potential to prove itself worthy to join the pantheon of "the greatest automatic movements ever made."
8o 8o 8oZitat:
Original von Daytona MOP
[...]
???
No offense! ;)Zitat:
Original von Daytona MOP
???
Größter Text! Da wird einem schwindlig beim Scrollen...aber die "puristen" sind schon gut. Insbesondere die ausführlichen Reviews. :D
MfG
Alex
ja, sehr schöner Bericht und tolle Bilder !
Bilder :rolleyes:Zitat:
Original von Daytona MOP
ja, sehr schöner Bericht und tolle Bilder !
Glückwunsch, wirklich etwas besonders Feines :gut:.
Die neue Schließe ist doch sicher wesentlich praktikabler?
ja der originale Bericht !Zitat:
Original von Maga
Bilder :rolleyes:Zitat:
Original von Daytona MOP
ja, sehr schöner Bericht und tolle Bilder !
Schaue ihn dir mal an !
:supercool:Ein Stück KULT ! Mehr braucht man nicht zu sagen !
Sauschönnnn AP Rules
Wunderschöne Uhren, herzliche Gratulation.
Ich besitze die Jumbo mit schwarzem Zifferblatt. Bin sehr zufrieden, einfach ein Traum. Die nächste AP wird wahrscheinlich der Chrono sein.
Gruss
Clöda
Beide super schön ;) Aber die neue :)
@Maga
hast du deine 15300 schon?