Vanessa
06.04.2008, 00:53
Ok, we do have an english section on board, so here we go....
The title was: Once upon a time....
…a young man lived in France and his hobbies were Scuba-Diving and Underwater-Hunting:
http://i32.tinypic.com/24ya34n.jpg
He was a member of the CSL (Club Subaquatique Lorientais CSL) as you can clearly read on his wet-suit:
http://i32.tinypic.com/xe0nj6.jpg
As a Scuba-Diver in these times only needed very little equipment (tank, vest, a compass and a depth gauge and a watch) and these watches were very expensive in these times the young man decided to write a letter to Rolex asking for some “sponsorship”. Unfortunately all the young diver´s letters are no longer existing due to the lack of Xerox-machines. He got the following letter from Rolex:
http://i26.tinypic.com/11vqush.jpg
The translation of the letter: (All translations from french to english are a big courtesy of Philip (dingomad):
Sir,
We are quickly answering your letter from past 20 because we have good news for you. We were lucky enough to find a Submariner watch that we lended to the "Moana" expedition some months ago and that was carried by one of its members.
As you are an ardent under water fisher and diver you will be proud to carry a watch that went around the underwater world on the wrist of famous diver Bernard Gorsky. We have no doubts you already heard that name before. So, this is a Submariner watch with an history and experience that we will offer you and we wishe for you that this watch will become an inseparable friend. Of course we will first fully restore this watch to a new condition and this is a like new watch that we will send you. We are speaking here of a 200 meters watch, meaning that it can endure a 200m depth. We are sending you along this letter an illustrated leaflet that will give you more details.
Servicing that watch will take around four weeks and we will tell you when it will be ready. We doubt being able to send it to you before Christmas and we will knidly ask you to wait for begining of next january.
In the mean time Dear Sir, please accept our best regards.
Rene Jeanneret.
P.S.: We would be pleased if you could keep confidential this matter as our answer to your request is very exceptional.
The Moana-Expedition:
A only 12 meters long sailship started on the 28th of June in 1954 from St.Malo to the Galapagos islands. There were four persons onboard: Bernard Gorsky, Pierre Pasquier, Roger Lesage and Serge Arnoux. The Moana reached the island of Genovesa on 29-03-1955 and left the island Santa Cruz heading for the Marquesas on 20-04-1955. (Summary a courtesy of Matthias, RLX)
Rene-Paul Jeanneret was the head of the Marketing Department in the 50ies and 60ies- don´t know if they called it “Marketing” in this time . He is supposed to be the “father” of the TOG, the Submariner and the Explorer and the GMT with the 4-hands-design. He was a big player at Rolex and fascinated of Scuba-diving.
The mentioned leaflet:
http://i29.tinypic.com/1zgbxag.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/x27at2.jpg
With that letter dated 22-12-1959 the new future owner was informed that the watch was shipped and that a new steel-bracelet was attached to the watch.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2wno28m.jpg
The young guy was happy and enjoyed scuba-diving with his freshly aquired watch….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2mw87x1.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2yn2wp3.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/25ipsh0.jpg
…till there was a mishaps with his watch: The watch was flooded! He sent one more letter to Rolex Geneva, Rene Jeanneret and told him the story. With the following letter Rolex asked him to return the watch, it will be taken care of…
http://i31.tinypic.com/2rfa2kg.jpg
Some days later he got the news that the watch arrived, in very bad shape. The crystal, the bezel and the bracelet will be changed:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2zi0tn5.jpg
Here is the invoice dated 19-10-1964 repair number 19875 showing that the movement was also changed along with the parts mentioned above:
http://i29.tinypic.com/fyiecg.jpg
Corresponding repair sign of Rolex Geneva under the word „Patented“ in the case-back:
http://i26.tinypic.com/mh9its.jpg
At the same time in October 1964 Rolex explained the reason why the watch was flooded: It was a mistake in a not mentioned steel part and the same time the crown, bezel, dial and hands were replaced with the latest parts….and FREE OF CHARGE which was described as a special exeption:
http://i29.tinypic.com/fyiecg.jpg
So the watch was working again and the young man enjoyed his hobby…
http://i27.tinypic.com/ra3l1v.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/1jm4yd.jpg
He took part at some competitions and sometimes he won…..
http://i30.tinypic.com/14am0lh.jpg
In 1969 there was a over-haul at Rolex, Paris:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2vcuzr5.jpg
And the watch was working till 1971 when Rolex Paris confirmed the incoming repair of the watch. At the same time they denied to buy it as a trade-in for a new one- luckily….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2ic8g80.jpg
The young guy therefore decided to keep the watch and in 1976 there was another service in Paris, to check water-proof and to maintain the bracelet:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2qao848.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/ra179u.jpg
In 1980 the watch had to be serviced again and the no-longer young man got some kind of a bit rude response as “...he was a diving instructor and therefore his watch is opposed to bigger stress and needs more service. However, considering his job, the service will be free of charge when he sends the watch to Rolex….”
http://i31.tinypic.com/28chfm0.jpg
In 1995 another service was necessary for the watch: It quit running and some more work has to be done and the proud owner got the answer better not to repair the watch as no guarantee could be given and some parts are out of stock. Watertightness could be a problem and the watch turned from a tool watch into a collector´s piece. He´d better invest the money in a new watch…
The Proforma invoice for the overhaul was 817,00 Swiss Franken including a new bracelet.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2rn7syr.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2cpw0uu.jpg
Due to the costs and the age of the watch the owner decided not to have it repaired and the watch was returned unrepaired:
„…we are hoping that you buy a new watch from our production range and will be happy to service a successor of that watch…“
http://i27.tinypic.com/8yf4o6.jpg
And here is the watch as it was returned from Rolex Geneva:
A Big Crown Submariner 6538:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2coj43m.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/2vcxj7n.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2rm74v5.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/359bpsp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2aeoy95.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/23k92d0.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/24w62ox.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/jg4ln6.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2s0jm2e.jpg
Perfect condition for a watch that was used for 40 years of Scuba Diving and that was surely not treated carefully throughout the years. The movement can be overhauled and you have a watch with a decent history:
http://i29.tinypic.com/206ivqf.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/rbd368.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/33l01oi.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/10r4fie.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2qaqm8k.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2u757w5.jpg
The bracelet from 1964 till now: Scary…….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2d1mgbm.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2ih1noj.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/213f5vb.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/11afxis.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/x2nyjb.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/25aui6s.jpg
And the box I got with the watch:
http://i32.tinypic.com/oj3691.jpg
I discovered the watch on the german RLX Forum as the former owner´s son-in-law asked for a watchmaker to repair it. I recommended my watchmaker and a bit later he posted that he either gives the watch for repair or the watch is waiting for an enthusiast and that was my call…
We agreed on the price and I bought the watch- I saw the whole paperwork the first time then with the exeption of the first letter. My problem was that I do not speak French and I was only fascinated by the watch. I did not care about the “paper junk”.
Biggest credits here to some persons as the whole story could not have written without their help:
Philip S. from Paris for his translations of all the letters and his magnificient background information.
Philipp S. from the Netherlands for his research on Moana and the pictures he provided in the background and for his critical mind….
Matthias from the german RLX forum for his support
And the unnamed collector´s friend. He has to be credited that the stoy continues….
Ok, I got one of my dream watches, a Big Crown. However, knowing all the background by having all the letters translated and getting more and more information about that unique watch that seems to be one of the few survivors of the Moana expedition I got more and more unsecure what to do with it: On the one hand I love watches with complete history, on the other hand that particular watch seems to be a part of Rolex-history...
Being so, Rolex should get the opportunity to get hands on this watch, imo.
So, I contacted the responsible department at Rolex Geneva via the unnamed collector friend. I mailed some of the letters and pictures so that they can see that it is not only “hot air”.
Some days later I got the answer that Rolex Geneva does not buy a watch just from scans and that I should send the complete watch to Geneva or deliver it personally.
Hmmmm, I did not mention that I want to sell it as in that case I would stand w/o a Big Crown again, I would have preferred a trade: “Normal” Big Crown against a Big Crown with special history.... anyway I booked a flight to Geneva where the watch was examined very carefully as well as the documents and all stuff was considered authentical. It was a bit difficult as we all had to talk in english and not in our native language.
The watch has the problem that serial and ref number was completely worn by the end links. Though the serial is mentioned more than once in the letters, they wanted to have proof of it. Till that noone can really say “This is the watch”. We agreed on the following: I try my best at home to get the serial number and Rolex does the same on their side based on the movement change in 1964 in Geneva.
Back in Munich again I contacted a friend at the bavarian LKA- must be the same institution as the corresponding department of the FBI. He contacted another friend and I delivered the case only at the metallurgic dept there.
Two days later I came to work an dmy secretary told me that “Mr. X has called about...some private stuff” so I ran to the phone.....:
They managed to read most parts of the serial number!!!!!! The first one is a “1” or a “7”, barely readable, the second one is a “4”, the third one is not readable and the last three numbers were a hole-in-one.....!!!!!!!
They can do this by a spezial acid that does not harm the metal, just blacken it, in combination with high-res microscopes. As the watch is not from a crime scene and it was a personla favour I did not get a written statement but the whole procedure could be re-done with the watch. 4 form 6 numbers are clear and the first one should be clear to every collector- at court you get fined with that evidence....
So I informed Rolex Geneva about the result about 14 days ago and I am still waiting for an answer…..seems as the predict „Oyster“ is even used everywhere….
So, what shall I do with the watch?
1. Leave it as it is and put it in the safe? (Rolex told me in case they take it, this would be their choice to remain the status as a time-teller and time capsule)
2. Have the movement serviced, the Tropic 17 polished, put a new bracelet on it from the time period and wear it? That was my idea before I get all the information.
3. Like topic 2 but get a gilt dial and gilt hands as well?
4. Swap it with a normal Big Crown just as it was my idea with Rolex?
5. Sell it? IMO the worst idea…..
Let me know your thoughts........
Again: A big „thank you“ to the unnamed collector and friend who helped with his conections and discretion!!!!! I owe you more than one.....
The title was: Once upon a time....
…a young man lived in France and his hobbies were Scuba-Diving and Underwater-Hunting:
http://i32.tinypic.com/24ya34n.jpg
He was a member of the CSL (Club Subaquatique Lorientais CSL) as you can clearly read on his wet-suit:
http://i32.tinypic.com/xe0nj6.jpg
As a Scuba-Diver in these times only needed very little equipment (tank, vest, a compass and a depth gauge and a watch) and these watches were very expensive in these times the young man decided to write a letter to Rolex asking for some “sponsorship”. Unfortunately all the young diver´s letters are no longer existing due to the lack of Xerox-machines. He got the following letter from Rolex:
http://i26.tinypic.com/11vqush.jpg
The translation of the letter: (All translations from french to english are a big courtesy of Philip (dingomad):
Sir,
We are quickly answering your letter from past 20 because we have good news for you. We were lucky enough to find a Submariner watch that we lended to the "Moana" expedition some months ago and that was carried by one of its members.
As you are an ardent under water fisher and diver you will be proud to carry a watch that went around the underwater world on the wrist of famous diver Bernard Gorsky. We have no doubts you already heard that name before. So, this is a Submariner watch with an history and experience that we will offer you and we wishe for you that this watch will become an inseparable friend. Of course we will first fully restore this watch to a new condition and this is a like new watch that we will send you. We are speaking here of a 200 meters watch, meaning that it can endure a 200m depth. We are sending you along this letter an illustrated leaflet that will give you more details.
Servicing that watch will take around four weeks and we will tell you when it will be ready. We doubt being able to send it to you before Christmas and we will knidly ask you to wait for begining of next january.
In the mean time Dear Sir, please accept our best regards.
Rene Jeanneret.
P.S.: We would be pleased if you could keep confidential this matter as our answer to your request is very exceptional.
The Moana-Expedition:
A only 12 meters long sailship started on the 28th of June in 1954 from St.Malo to the Galapagos islands. There were four persons onboard: Bernard Gorsky, Pierre Pasquier, Roger Lesage and Serge Arnoux. The Moana reached the island of Genovesa on 29-03-1955 and left the island Santa Cruz heading for the Marquesas on 20-04-1955. (Summary a courtesy of Matthias, RLX)
Rene-Paul Jeanneret was the head of the Marketing Department in the 50ies and 60ies- don´t know if they called it “Marketing” in this time . He is supposed to be the “father” of the TOG, the Submariner and the Explorer and the GMT with the 4-hands-design. He was a big player at Rolex and fascinated of Scuba-diving.
The mentioned leaflet:
http://i29.tinypic.com/1zgbxag.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/x27at2.jpg
With that letter dated 22-12-1959 the new future owner was informed that the watch was shipped and that a new steel-bracelet was attached to the watch.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2wno28m.jpg
The young guy was happy and enjoyed scuba-diving with his freshly aquired watch….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2mw87x1.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2yn2wp3.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/25ipsh0.jpg
…till there was a mishaps with his watch: The watch was flooded! He sent one more letter to Rolex Geneva, Rene Jeanneret and told him the story. With the following letter Rolex asked him to return the watch, it will be taken care of…
http://i31.tinypic.com/2rfa2kg.jpg
Some days later he got the news that the watch arrived, in very bad shape. The crystal, the bezel and the bracelet will be changed:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2zi0tn5.jpg
Here is the invoice dated 19-10-1964 repair number 19875 showing that the movement was also changed along with the parts mentioned above:
http://i29.tinypic.com/fyiecg.jpg
Corresponding repair sign of Rolex Geneva under the word „Patented“ in the case-back:
http://i26.tinypic.com/mh9its.jpg
At the same time in October 1964 Rolex explained the reason why the watch was flooded: It was a mistake in a not mentioned steel part and the same time the crown, bezel, dial and hands were replaced with the latest parts….and FREE OF CHARGE which was described as a special exeption:
http://i29.tinypic.com/fyiecg.jpg
So the watch was working again and the young man enjoyed his hobby…
http://i27.tinypic.com/ra3l1v.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/1jm4yd.jpg
He took part at some competitions and sometimes he won…..
http://i30.tinypic.com/14am0lh.jpg
In 1969 there was a over-haul at Rolex, Paris:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2vcuzr5.jpg
And the watch was working till 1971 when Rolex Paris confirmed the incoming repair of the watch. At the same time they denied to buy it as a trade-in for a new one- luckily….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2ic8g80.jpg
The young guy therefore decided to keep the watch and in 1976 there was another service in Paris, to check water-proof and to maintain the bracelet:
http://i28.tinypic.com/2qao848.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/ra179u.jpg
In 1980 the watch had to be serviced again and the no-longer young man got some kind of a bit rude response as “...he was a diving instructor and therefore his watch is opposed to bigger stress and needs more service. However, considering his job, the service will be free of charge when he sends the watch to Rolex….”
http://i31.tinypic.com/28chfm0.jpg
In 1995 another service was necessary for the watch: It quit running and some more work has to be done and the proud owner got the answer better not to repair the watch as no guarantee could be given and some parts are out of stock. Watertightness could be a problem and the watch turned from a tool watch into a collector´s piece. He´d better invest the money in a new watch…
The Proforma invoice for the overhaul was 817,00 Swiss Franken including a new bracelet.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2rn7syr.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2cpw0uu.jpg
Due to the costs and the age of the watch the owner decided not to have it repaired and the watch was returned unrepaired:
„…we are hoping that you buy a new watch from our production range and will be happy to service a successor of that watch…“
http://i27.tinypic.com/8yf4o6.jpg
And here is the watch as it was returned from Rolex Geneva:
A Big Crown Submariner 6538:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2coj43m.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/2vcxj7n.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2rm74v5.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/359bpsp.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/2aeoy95.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/23k92d0.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/24w62ox.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/jg4ln6.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2s0jm2e.jpg
Perfect condition for a watch that was used for 40 years of Scuba Diving and that was surely not treated carefully throughout the years. The movement can be overhauled and you have a watch with a decent history:
http://i29.tinypic.com/206ivqf.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/rbd368.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/33l01oi.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/10r4fie.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/2qaqm8k.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/2u757w5.jpg
The bracelet from 1964 till now: Scary…….
http://i26.tinypic.com/2d1mgbm.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2ih1noj.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/213f5vb.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/11afxis.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/x2nyjb.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/25aui6s.jpg
And the box I got with the watch:
http://i32.tinypic.com/oj3691.jpg
I discovered the watch on the german RLX Forum as the former owner´s son-in-law asked for a watchmaker to repair it. I recommended my watchmaker and a bit later he posted that he either gives the watch for repair or the watch is waiting for an enthusiast and that was my call…
We agreed on the price and I bought the watch- I saw the whole paperwork the first time then with the exeption of the first letter. My problem was that I do not speak French and I was only fascinated by the watch. I did not care about the “paper junk”.
Biggest credits here to some persons as the whole story could not have written without their help:
Philip S. from Paris for his translations of all the letters and his magnificient background information.
Philipp S. from the Netherlands for his research on Moana and the pictures he provided in the background and for his critical mind….
Matthias from the german RLX forum for his support
And the unnamed collector´s friend. He has to be credited that the stoy continues….
Ok, I got one of my dream watches, a Big Crown. However, knowing all the background by having all the letters translated and getting more and more information about that unique watch that seems to be one of the few survivors of the Moana expedition I got more and more unsecure what to do with it: On the one hand I love watches with complete history, on the other hand that particular watch seems to be a part of Rolex-history...
Being so, Rolex should get the opportunity to get hands on this watch, imo.
So, I contacted the responsible department at Rolex Geneva via the unnamed collector friend. I mailed some of the letters and pictures so that they can see that it is not only “hot air”.
Some days later I got the answer that Rolex Geneva does not buy a watch just from scans and that I should send the complete watch to Geneva or deliver it personally.
Hmmmm, I did not mention that I want to sell it as in that case I would stand w/o a Big Crown again, I would have preferred a trade: “Normal” Big Crown against a Big Crown with special history.... anyway I booked a flight to Geneva where the watch was examined very carefully as well as the documents and all stuff was considered authentical. It was a bit difficult as we all had to talk in english and not in our native language.
The watch has the problem that serial and ref number was completely worn by the end links. Though the serial is mentioned more than once in the letters, they wanted to have proof of it. Till that noone can really say “This is the watch”. We agreed on the following: I try my best at home to get the serial number and Rolex does the same on their side based on the movement change in 1964 in Geneva.
Back in Munich again I contacted a friend at the bavarian LKA- must be the same institution as the corresponding department of the FBI. He contacted another friend and I delivered the case only at the metallurgic dept there.
Two days later I came to work an dmy secretary told me that “Mr. X has called about...some private stuff” so I ran to the phone.....:
They managed to read most parts of the serial number!!!!!! The first one is a “1” or a “7”, barely readable, the second one is a “4”, the third one is not readable and the last three numbers were a hole-in-one.....!!!!!!!
They can do this by a spezial acid that does not harm the metal, just blacken it, in combination with high-res microscopes. As the watch is not from a crime scene and it was a personla favour I did not get a written statement but the whole procedure could be re-done with the watch. 4 form 6 numbers are clear and the first one should be clear to every collector- at court you get fined with that evidence....
So I informed Rolex Geneva about the result about 14 days ago and I am still waiting for an answer…..seems as the predict „Oyster“ is even used everywhere….
So, what shall I do with the watch?
1. Leave it as it is and put it in the safe? (Rolex told me in case they take it, this would be their choice to remain the status as a time-teller and time capsule)
2. Have the movement serviced, the Tropic 17 polished, put a new bracelet on it from the time period and wear it? That was my idea before I get all the information.
3. Like topic 2 but get a gilt dial and gilt hands as well?
4. Swap it with a normal Big Crown just as it was my idea with Rolex?
5. Sell it? IMO the worst idea…..
Let me know your thoughts........
Again: A big „thank you“ to the unnamed collector and friend who helped with his conections and discretion!!!!! I owe you more than one.....