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delgado
01.01.2008, 05:06
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/drdelgado/1680RSbp/D2x3959.jpg

Predictions for 2008

Looking at my magic ball. If any of this junk becomes true, its merely coincidental

IMO the Rolex Market will continue to climb to stratospheric levels. Helped by the weak dollar, stronger GBP and Euro along with continue influx of new collectors and now fueled by some investors/speculators.

This will be the year of provenance and condition.

If you take one thing with you, its this “This is the year of provenance and condition” and “Wear Sunscreen” Ok, that is two things..

1. Rare pieces will command rare prices. COMEX, Mil subs, PPDRSD, will continue to march at their own logarithmic scale. They will separate the serious collectors from the newbies.. and I mean serious prices for serious collectors. This will become a game for the big boys of “how bad do you want it?”

2. Sport watches will continue to ride the curve. Those with correct papers, and condition will separate from the bunch and continue to command almost twice the price.

3. DRSD at 50k usd will be the norm and Red Subs will be at about 25k for nice examples. White SD and subs will follow this trend.

4. Daytonas will climb past 60ks and PN will be trading for at least 200k for nice examples and more for better documented ones..

5. Mayer dial Daytonas will remain in some controversy, hopefully we will see some resolution of this.

6. Pisani Dials 1665s along with 5514 will be the watch to own by serious collectors, along with the 5517 mil subs. ..Both watches will be pillars for some collectors.

7. Milgauss 1019s and the 6541/3 will take a bump from the current production and both will become more desirable.

8. Gilt is in.. and so is Shitake or Tropical.. Specially gilt watches have gone through the roof and their beautiful dials are treasured by collectors.. they will continue to flourish. Specially those gilt dials associated with James Bond or Big Crown. Condition is the key on these watches. Tropical is a little trendy but some have a love it or leave it attitude to them .

9. Transitionals will stay in transition.. some like them, some prefer the originals.. They will be desirable but most prefer to have the plastic or the sapphire ones..

10. Crappy watches will demand crappy prices and will be harder to sell. Unless you need parts..

11. Bigger is Better and Newer is ok. So the new milgauss, anniv milgauss, ceramic GMT are in.. even some of the vintages guys are liking these watches.. The anniversary milgauss will be a big winner and command a big premium.

12. GMTs are cool again.. and 6542s will continue and soon break 100k… 1675s will continue to slowly rise to the top..

The Bubble and Balloon.

If the whole market tanks, the cream pieces will rise to the top and the lower pieces will stagnate. The prices will hold but it will take longer to sell as less collectors will be willing to buy. Some of the smaller collectors will suffer and take a hit to get out.

As long as the European, Japanese, Chinese and Russian economy holds up, the balloon will hold.

So far no bubble, only continued ballooning.

The Investor

Weather you want it or not.. (and I am one that have resisted this theory), our hobby is now a market. Yes, there are investors and speculators mixed in with true collectors or some that are playing with watches.

For years we have been told that watches are not investments and I believe that also. But when watches are better investments than wall street or real state, it attracts some people that would normally stayed out.

And if watch price discussions horrify you or disgust you since you feel this is our hobby, well, we need to get used to it. It’s the sign of the times and it affects all of us. It affects which watch we are going to get next since finances is important to most of us and we cant afford everything we want.. (some of you are excluded)

So I end up buying a nice white sub, even if I wanted a 1665 because the 1665 have now become unattainable and finding a 1680 comex or 1665 comex for a reasonable price has become as easy as breaking into Fort Knox with a Swiss army knife in an orange jump suit during daylight.

Disclaimer
This whole post is total speculation on my part and only my opinion, so take for what is worth. nothing.. I am not a financial guy or a watch business guy. I am just an expectator that loves watches. Looking at the industry from the outside.

And if any of guys make it big with the info on my post, I want a piece of it… LOL If you loose money...well, I told you so... :)

Have a Happy New Year and I hope that you find the watch you love.

Hannes
01.01.2008, 08:24
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Ed.

They don´t sound unreal to mel but let´s wait and see what happens... ;)

Boris_Koch
01.01.2008, 09:03
This is all great news: I am, at long last, going to spend less time on watch forums :D

bullibeer
01.01.2008, 09:06
Thanks Ed,... great you take the time to do this,....
It will be a great Rolex year!!!!

Enjoy!
I guess you will...

Bernhard

mller
01.01.2008, 09:41
hallo ed,

i think you forgot the daytonas 16520 and 16528

porcelains?

the early series, r and l with floating, four liners, 200 and 225 bezels?

and the ones with inverted 6 dials?

and the later ones?

and other gold watches as 1680/8, 1675/8????

what is your prediction for 2008?????

rgds
dieter

GeorgB
01.01.2008, 12:50
http://www.marken-jaeger.de/rlx/1675_thincase.JPG

Thanks for your predictions, Ed :gut:

Let me append some random thoughts from German vintage collectors point of view:

1)
As you mentioned, provenance and condition are essential for collectors.

2)
Complete sets will increase the price extremely. Here we will experience a big crime wave with faked add-ons and accessories during next years, particularly with boxes and papers.

3)
The good Euro-Dollar ratio gives European collectors in 2008 a better availability of vintage watches, but sadly no better price range.

4)
In the former Rolex collectors entry level price range from 2.000–3.500 Euro we will find no more reasonable and complete vintage Rolex sport watches. The vintage models like DJ will take over this price level. Here we will find a considerable price increase till 2009.

http://www.marken-jaeger.de/rlx/1603_1.jpg

5)
SS/GG prices are resting. We see only a smaller demand. Many ss/gg watches are in poor condition.

6)
Gold watches from 50th (Daydate), 60th (Daydate, GMT) and 70th (Daydate, DJ, GMT, Submariner) are still affordable. Often the gold versions without bracelet are cheaper than comparable steel versions. Biggest and costly problem is the condition of the gold bracelet.

http://www.marken-jaeger.de/rlx/16758_0.JPG

7)
Vintage Explorer 1016 is keeping it’s price range since years. Here we may find a potential sleeper watch for the future.

8)
From 2008 on we have to name first sapphire glass watches as “vintage”, for instance 16550 or my loved “Fat Lady” 16760.

http://www.marken-jaeger.de/rlx/total.jpg


9)
Serious collectors are avoiding bigger investments in high price steel watches. They only buy well-aimed watches for their collections. This high-price market is extremly volatile and taken over by investors.

10)
Many new collectors are “buying their youth”. We see a high demand on “birthday” watches. Based on that, we will experience a higher demand of normal quality “every-day” vintage watches out of 1970-1985.

11)
To buy high and sell higher. Thats the bitter truth for the vintage market of the well-known "rare" steel watches (1655, 1665, 1019, ...). Here we will find only current daily prices.

12)
In 2008 we will see first quotes > 10k for complete sets of popular 60th and 70th watches like GMTs.

http://www.marken-jaeger.de/rlx/1675_71.JPG





Happy New Year and buy watch you love.

.

mike 1675
01.01.2008, 17:30
Thank you all for your insight and thoughts. :gut: It certainly seems 08 will be a fun and exciting year. :jump:

NicoH
02.01.2008, 10:04
Thanks Ed, thanks Georg,

I´ll be back next year and I´m sure most of your predictions will have come true! It will be sad to see that many enthusiasts will be pushed out of the market because of crazy prices but hey, what can we do about it.

Enjoy what you have, I certainly do! :gut:

All the best-
Nico

steboe
02.01.2008, 11:07
Thank You very much Ed and Georg...to be honest I would like to see a bubble burst, doesn´t seem to come so soon as I hope to stock up... ;)

GeorgB
02.01.2008, 11:57
Hi Stephen,
every (!) collector would like to see a bubble burst to build up stock (to start with Comex, DRSD ...) ;). That tightens the basis of my "there-is-no-bubble" theory. In 2008 collectors will cry about high prices again.

jholbrook
02.01.2008, 14:30
The more I read about the vintage market, the more I want to stick with contemporary models I like to wear and won't worry about their value. :tongue:

Hannibal
02.01.2008, 20:47
I do not understand why people are so interested in vintage watches, when they can buy a contemporary modell (which looks almost the same) for less money.
Volker

delgado
02.01.2008, 22:40
John,

Come to the dark side.. dont be affraid...



Hannibal,
You are so correct but I dont think you understand..

1. Buying a new watch is a matter of taste and money. Find the watch by calling a coupe of AD and pay for it. Cash or credit? are the two important questions.. Comes from an AD, so no questions about authenticity and it comes with a nice box and even a warranty!! What else could you ask for? To wear them, its a great status symbol. ( I wear one everyday that I purchased at the AD)

2. Buying a vintage watch is a quest. The ultimate addictive hobby. Its not a matter of money since just having money does not get you the watch. You have to find the watch and then do your homework to find out more about the history of the watch and its authenticity and originality.. Boxes, papers, tags, service history, booklets, etc...it must be perfect.. Sometimes you find the watch but its missing a correct insert or hands, and that sends you onto a secondary quest to find those items. It could take days or months or years.. but it part of the quest and the fun. You will have to contact other people in similar quest and exchange information and parts to help you. This is where the net and forums such as this one play a part.

Its also part of the fun to have one of these watches, reminds you of the days gone by and if they could tell stories.. The COMEX and mi subs were used for oceans and lands conquests and some have survived to tell about them. They have also have been used in the development of the watches we purchase today in the AD.

Once you have one of these watches on your wrist that you have spend time and labor to research and learn more about...you will never look at those cheap newer watches the same way..

A Vintage Rolex is a modern day Adventure!!

Kindly
Delgado

jholbrook
02.01.2008, 22:53
Originally posted by delgado
John,

Come to the dark side.. dont be affraid...

Kindly
Delgado

Oh I have tipp toed in the dark Ed. :tongue:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a352/jholbrook/Wrist%20Shots/wristshot2-1.jpg

Hannibal
03.01.2008, 14:34
Hello Delgado,
thank you very much for your answer. Now I understand a bit more of this modern day adventure (seeking, talking with others, ...).
I have one watch (Omega Speedmaster) which reminds me of the moon landing (great interest as a child), but this watch is not really vintage (10 years old). Another watch dates from 1969 (Citizen, my first automatic watch) and I try to restore that watch for sentimental reasons (not my favourite brand nor look today).
"Once you have one of these watches on your wrist that you have spend time and labor to research and learn more about...you will never look at those cheap newer watches the same way.."
Perhaps, one day I will experience this, if I am no longer looking for contemporary watches and have the time to start a quest.
Kindly Volker

Boris_Koch
03.01.2008, 15:36
Originally posted by jholbrook
The more I read about the vintage market, the more I want to stick with contemporary models I like to wear and won't worry about their value. :tongue:

Count me in. The day a white 1680 goes for 10-12k, I will offload mine and get a 16610 LV, and with the change I'll get my wife a Datejust.

steboe
28.08.2008, 11:45
Maybe time for an update now.... ;)
As I see darker clouds ahead... :rolleyes: