Tudor Big Crown 7922...Is it a Tudor or a Rolex ????

[philipp]

Hi,

I have a very special Tudor Big Crown in..why is it so special and exciting to me?? The inside of the caseback has been signed Rolex with reference 6538 but has been crossed and remarked to 7922 with a date stamp of III '57. Furthermore between the lugs it is stamped 7922 and a serial of 307xxx..First thought of mine was strange?! 307xxx for a Big Crown of Tudor with the rare early reference 7922 is much too late and doesn't make any sense...& previous posts of mine shows that most of the Tudor 7924 BC had serial 275XXX and 292xxx & date stamp of IV'58 and the Tudor 7928 Square Crown were at least 305xxx with date stamp of IV '59....

So, i started my researche again...

Recently i bought my first big crown with 7922 reference with tropical dial. After a closer examination i noticed that this brown has a rolex caseback with datestamp I-1956 and serial 140xxx. No Tudor caseback but a Rolex 6538 caseback..hmmmmm maybe the caseback was changed..no clear answer to me till i got my newest 7922 in with the same Rolex caseback and also stamped 6538 but here we see that the 6538 has been crossed and put 7922 under. I took a Rolex Big Crown i have in my collection and check the caseback with date stamp and serial..it is a 6538 with also 140xxx serial dating it from I-'56 and only 42 number away from the brown 7922. That started me thinking and with me some friends and here is the IMHO conclusion:

The serials of the early 7922 Tudors Big Crowns are from Rolex and NOT in the range of Tudor..140xxx makes I-1956 & 307xxx makes III '57 with rolex serials!

So back again to the title of this message: Are these early 7922 Tudor's or Rolexes?? What we see now is that in the early years Rolex cased the 7922 in a Rolex case with matching Rolex serial numbers and in some cases a crossed 6538 reference inside the caseback. I know that the great collectors and dealers of the world are faithfull to the crown and only Rolex on the dial makes it a Rolex but as i wanted to mention with this post is that these early Tudor Big Crowns are coming very close and they show us that the line between Tudor and Rolex has not yet been very clear at that time at the Geneva HQ. IMHO you get more authentic Rolex than they ever made in all Tudors afterwards..The whole case and crown is Rolex except the dial and movement..last propably to market them differently by [french] demand in these early days of the Big Crown evolution....

Except this surprising case analyse, my newest BC has also a rare underline & red triangle bezel ; - ))

Any more thoughts here?? Every info is welcome!

Enjoy the pictures, Rgrds.Philipp

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922underline2.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922BCunderline.jpg

And here the caseback of the meantioned Tudor BC 7922 with brown dial - I'56 & 140XXX

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline4.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline5.jpg


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline3.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline6.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline11.jpg


http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922bcunderline8.jpg


And here the caseback of the meantioned Tudor BC 7922 with brown dial - I'56 & 140XXX
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7922underline12.jpg

Here we see the crossed 6538 reference, 7922 stamp and III-'57...
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/rolex6538caseback.jpg

[mller]

fantastic watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PCS]

Fantastic watch and an even more interesting story. 8o

[fib]

Oh, what a great watch.

wonderfull!

[jholbrook]

Thanks much for sharing!! :jump:

[Gerard]

Oww, what a gorgeous vintage Tudor.... :verneig: :verneig: :verneig: :verneig:

[ehemaliges mitglied]

Original von philipp

So back again to the title of this message: Are these early 7922 Tudor's or Rolexes?? What we see now is that in the early years Rolex cased the 7922 in a Rolex case with matching Rolex serial numbers and in some cases a crossed 6538 reference inside the caseback. I know that the great collectors and dealers of the world are faithfull to the crown and only Rolex on the dial makes it a Rolex but as i wanted to mention with this post is that these early Tudor Big Crowns are coming very close and they show us that the line between Tudor and Rolex has not yet been very clear at that time at the Geneva HQ. IMHO you get more authentic Rolex than they ever made in all Tudors afterwards..The whole case and crown is Rolex except the dial and movement..last propably to market them differently by [french] demand in these early days of the Big Crown evolution....



Sophisticated questions ;)

I mean what makes a Ferrari ?
The "case" or the "movement" ?
The shape or the heart ?

Beautiful watch, anyway :verneig:

[philipp]

Thanks Hadoque!

For me it's the shape AND the heart .....and to stay in your words: it's the same as if Fiat is using a Ferrari body and chassis with an 8 cylinder Fiat engine ....the line was very thin between these early big crown Tudor and Rolexes & by the way..i start thinking that Rolex was using Tudor to experiment in these early days...

Rgrds.Philipp

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/5xbigcrownrlx.jpg

[Gerard]

Original von philipp

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/5xbigcrownrlx.jpg

8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o

Breath taking.... :verneig: :verneig: :verneig: :verneig:

[philipp]

Here you see another swiss dialed 7924 but now as civil version with the later 292 xxx serial..

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7924giltswissrlx.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudor7924giltswisskroonrlx.jpg

As we know now not many were made, estimate between 160 - 300 so al Big crowns of Tudor are rare..the Rolex 6538A will beat it by numbers and probably the 6200 & 5510 also but there were made for a short time.IMHO more 6538 are around and there are different variations within the Tudor BC serie, lets say MK's. Most are knows as 7924 and many went to the MN and were used in combat..see it on one of the casebacks..it had to be opened quick..Servicecenter in Toulon ordered a new one but it never came..because there weren't any left was the message back from Geneva so it went on in this condition...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudorbcachterrlx.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/MNrolex3rlx.jpg

They had to be serviced and many lost their original dial and replaced with silver printed t-swiss-t dials, the 275xxx serials - '58 were real combat watches, the later 292xxx '59 serials were for civil use. The earlier Swiss dialed Tudor 7922 & 7924 were i started with are more prototypes and i haven;t seen one before 1'56 yet & the line here is very thin here to the rolex big crowns. The small case 7922 were probably the earlier solution for the MN. The rolex 6538 cased are in my eyes the MK1, the combat 7924 MK2 and the later civils the MK3 and the 7928 Square Crown from '59 will be the MK4. All these Tudors are rare and use almost the same case & 390 caliber. No big difference like we see in the DRSD list because of the much higher quantity and longer production in the later series...

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/Bigcrowndrsdrlx.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/tudorbigcrown7924rlx.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/2xtudorsqrlx.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t64/stahlauctioneers/2xtudorsqsiderlx.jpg

Rgrds.Philipp

[PCS]

Very interesting new informations. The "modified" Caseback is nice. ;)